Shift+Delete in outlook express

Hallo,
there was a discussion about shift+delete not working in explorer.
It is not working neither in outlook express (I have win xp sp3).
Then I tried:
[rshift_down][delete][rshift_up]
rshift_down is working and the message "do you really want to delete" is showing up.
The problem is, that rshift_up is not working, neither lshift_up or shift_up.
Because of that, moving the cursor about text is selecting the text.

Any solution?

Someone mentioned inserting a small delay before the "up" part (a few hundred milliseconds). I can't remember if it was actually reported to be working, but it's worth a try.

Sorry gemisigo, I inserted the delay, but it is not working.

Yep, let's try something else then. I had a suggestion here : http://www.tcbmi.com/strokeit/forum/read.php?2,54718,54737#msg-54737 but it wasn't answered. Please, try these steps to see if it's SHIFT that causes the problem.

Hallo gemisigo
First, I want to add that I have the german keyboard. But as there are 2 shift keys like on the english keyboard, I think this is not a reason for the problem. Anyway, there are differences between the left and right shift key.

That's how the different commands are working in outlook express and notepad:

[shift_down]
Notepad: uppercase

[shift_down][shift_up]
Notepad: lowercase

[rshift_down]
Notepad: uppercase

[rshift_down][rshift_up]
Notepad: lowercase

[shift_down][delete][shift_up]
OE: Message moved in folder deleted objects

[rshift_down][delete][rshift_up]
OE: Message showing up "do you want to delete the message irrevocable" (translated from german)
. Answer: No. Left click in the text is selecting the text from the last cursor
. position
. Notepad: OK, no selection.

. 1. Test:
. Pressing LEFT shift key down in OE: Nothing happens.
. Pressing LEFT shift key down in notepad,
. then change to OE: no more selection.

. 2. Test:
. Pressing RIGHT shift key down in OE: no more selection

I hope these tests will help you.
Jürgen

> Anyway, there are differences
> between the left and right shift key.
That's quite strange. Though it's possible for applications to distinguish left and right keys (e.g. many games do) most of them does not. They simply do not need that feature. I tried the actions with both SHIFTs in windows explorer and found no difference there.

It must be something machine/keyboard layout specific because other people reported the same behavior under Win 7x64. I use the same and never experienced this problem, not even when I was using XP sp3. Try switching keyboard and/or keyboard layout. Just for the records, I use the keyboard of an ACER Aspire notebook with a(n extremely) customized Dvorak layout.

I cannot try in OE since I do not have it installed.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough :) I wanted you to try the action with SHIFT + DELETE only, implemented with hotkey command and not the ones with sending keystrokes only altering the state of SHIFT.

Just to clarify things, a few more statements. Are they true or false?

1. SHIFT + DELETE hotkey action:
a. does not delete selected item
b. does not delete selected item totally but it moves it to recycle bin/deleted objects
c. does either of the above and leaves SHIFT pressed/not pressed
c. does neither of the above and leaves SHIFT pressed/not pressed

2. The same with sending keystrokes (both LSHIFT/RSHIFT versions)

It seems to be a specific OE problem.
More tests:

Gesture in Windows explorer
-----------------------------------
[rshift_down][delete][rshift_up]
WORKS CORRECT, shows message "do you really want to delete filename" (not recycle bin)

[lshift_down][delete][lshift_up]
[shift_down][delete][shift_up]
wrong, shows message "do you want to move filename to recycle bin"

Gesture in global actions
------------------------------
OE: Wrong, text selected
Windows explorer: WORKS CORRECT

Gesture in OE
-----------------
[rshift_down][delete][rshift_up]
delay 1000 ms
[rshift_up][shift_up]
wrong, text selected

[rshift_down][delete]
hotkey: shift (I tried left and right)
wrong

Are they true or false?
1. SHIFT + DELETE hotkey action:
a. does not delete selected item totally -----------> true
b. does not delete selected item totally but it moves it to recycle bin/deleted objects -------> true
c. does either of the above and leaves SHIFT ----------> not pressed
c. does neither of the above and leaves SHIFT pressed/not pressed -------> false

2. The same with sending keystrokes (both LSHIFT/RSHIFT versions)
No difference between shift and lshift. Only rshift works (only) in win explorer.

I also changed the keyboard (hardware), from USB- to PS/2 keyboard, no difference.

Then I changed Windows Settings: US keyboard layout active
[shift_down][delete][shift_up]
[rshift_down][delete][rshift_up]
no differences to german keyboard layout

[rshift_down]
delay 200 ms
[DELETE_DOWN]
delay 200 ms
[DELETE_UP]
delay 200ms
[rshift_up]

Leo, no success

I managed to reproduce the same issue on another XP sp3 (Hungarian), both in windows explorer and outlook express. No solutions yet. You should post it on the http://www.tcbmi.com/strokeit/bugs

Should I post ALL or only an extract or only the first topic?
I made a new gesture for OE which only should press the right shift key to deselect the selected text in the OE message. No solution. I tried:
Hotkey shift
Hotkey alt+shift
[shift]
[rshift_up]
[rshift_down][rshift_up]

May be a solution would be to write a small program exe or vbs which only presses the right shift key. Then to assign a hotkey to this program and access the hotkey in Strokeit after the normal commands:
[rshift_down][delete][rshift_up]
(Commands for closing the confirmation window)
hotkey xy (accesses the program which presses the right shift key)

Unfortunately I cannot write programs.

Hello gemisigo and Jürgen,

Jeff already has looked at this one and he has no bugs found .

http://www.tcbmi.com/strokeit/forum/read.php?2,54766,54767#msg-54767

Thanks

Leo

I tried this on my WinXP SP3 English system with all positive results:

Hotkey: SHIFT + DELETE
Keys: [rshift_down][delete][rshift_up]

On my system, both commands behave exactly the same.

Windows Explorer: Files are deleted immediately without being moved to recycle bin
Outlook Express: "Are you sure" message box comes up, 'shift' key is not stuck down

Unfortunately this makes it nearly impossible for me to debug myself, but I would like someone to try the following:

To summarize what's already been reported:

On "broken" systems:

SHIFT + DELETE
Notepad: Works as expected
Explorer: Acts as if "Shift" is not pressed
OE: Acts as if "Shift" is not pressed

[rshift_down][delete][rshift_up]
Notepad: Works as expected
Explorer: Works as expected
OE: Works as expected, but shift key is "stuck"


So, really there are two separate bugs:
bug1: SHIFT+DELETE does not work as expected in Explorer and OE
bug2: Using [rshift_down][delete][rshift_up] in OE causes the shift key to get "stuck"

Please correct me if any of the above is wrong.

I would like someone with a broken system to try the following:

1) Create an action with the following commands
[rshift_down][delete]
delay: 200ms
[rshift_up]

Draw the gesture in OE.

1a) Does the delete window appear?
1b) Is shift still stuck?

2) Create two actions, assigned to two separate gestures
First action
[rshift_down][delete]
Section action
[rshift_up]

Draw both gestures in OE.

2a) Does the delete window appear?
2b) Is shift still stuck?

Hello gemisigo and Jürgen,

Can you additional try this with [url=http://www.autohotkey.com/]autohotkey[/url] with script :

Send {Shift Down} {DEL} {Shift Up}

Thanks

Leo

Jeff,

So, really there are two separate bugs:
bug1: SHIFT+DELETE does not work as expected in Explorer and OE
bug2: Using [rshift_down][delete][rshift_up] in OE causes the shift key to get "stuck"

Please correct me if any of the above is wrong.
---------> All right.

I would like someone with a broken system to try the following:

1) Create an action with the following commands
[rshift_down][delete]
delay: 200ms
[rshift_up]

Draw the gesture in OE.

1a) Does the delete window appear? -------> yes
1b) Is shift still stuck? --------> yes

2) Create two actions, assigned to two separate gestures
First action
[rshift_down][delete]
Section action
[rshift_up]

Draw both gestures in OE.

2a) Does the delete window appear? -------> yes
2b) Is shift still stuck? ------------> yes

Jürgen and autohotkey works ?

> Hello gemisigo and Jürgen,
>
> Can you additional try this with autohotkey with
> script :
>
> Send {Shift Down} {DEL} {Shift Up}

Hi Leo!
I'm sorry but I won't be able to try it until next Monday. The computer I was using belongs one of my colleagues at my workplace and I do not have access to it. Every command mentioned above work on my system but that's not surprising (it's Win 7x64 and it's English).

If nobody reports the autohotkey results till Monday, I'll try to convince my colleague to install it and run some experiments but I'm afraid he might refuse to comply :) It's his workstation after all.

Try [url=http://www.tcbmi.com/downloads/strokeit/test/keys.dll]this keystroke plugin[/url] and let me know if you have different results.

To install it, just copy the file to the Plugins folder in your StrokeIt installation directory. You can move the keys.dll file that is already in there to a safe place, in case this doesn't work for you and you want to switch back.

-- Jeff

Tests Autohotkey
-----------------

; Send {Shift Down} {DEL} {Shift Up}
; Send {Shift Down} {DEL down} {Shift Up}
; Send {Shift Down} {DEL down} {Shift Up} {DEL up}
; Send {rShift Down} {DEL} {rShift Up}
; ---- > all 4: explorer OK | OE shows window for some ms only, no action

; Send {Shift Down} {DEL}
; -----> explorer and OE show window, shift stucks in both

; Send {Shift} {DEL}
; -----> explorer OK | OE no window, deletes message in folder deleted messages

; Strokeit [rshift_down][delete] plus
; Autohotkey Send {rShift Up} {lShift Up} {Shift}
; -----> explorer no action | OE shift stucks


Tests Strokeit with new keys.dll
--------------------------------

[lshift_down][delete][lshift_up]
[rshift_down][delete][rshift_up]
[shift_down][delete][shift_up]
-----> explorer and OE no actions

Jürgen, Danke für das Testen !

What about [url=http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/home/tef/wintools/#keyremap]this[/url] ?
Does keyview shows the correct keystrokes with old and new dll?

Thanks

Leo

Edit try this too please

{Shift Down}
Sleep 500
{DEL down}
Sleep 500
{DEL up}
Sleep 500
{Shift Up}

or additional

SetKeyDelay 500,200
Send {Shift Down} {DEL down}{DEL up} {Shift Up}



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2010 09:18AM by Leo.

There was a bug in the first plugin I posted, try [url=http://www.tcbmi.com/downloads/strokeit/test/keys.dll]this keystroke plugin[/url] and let me know what happens.

-- Jeff

We have the solution!!!

************ All the following is working well! **************************

SetKeyDelay 500,200
Send {Shift} {DEL} j {Shift Up}
----> OE and explorer: deletes message / file permanently, OK! ( j = y for yes in German)
----> Also works with Delay 50,50, but NOT without any delay

[shift][delete]j[shift_up]
----> OE: deletes message permanently, OK
----> Explorer: no

New Command = keys, keys "[shift]"
New Command = utilities, Delay "100"
New Command = keys, keys "[delete]"
New Command = utilities, Delay "100"
New Command = keys, keys "j"
New Command = utilities, Delay "100"
New Command = keys, keys "[shift_up]"
----> Explorer: deletes file permanently, OK
----> Not working with delay 50


*************** Jeff, new plugin ******************************

[rshift_down][delete][rshift_up]
----> OE: shift stucks

[shift_down][delete][shift_up]
----> OE: deletes message permanently, so far OK, but it should not delete, because the letter j is missing
----> Explorer: no

[shift_down] (delay 100) [delete] (delay 100) [shift_up]
----> Explorer: asks if delete, OK!

[shift_down] (delay 100) [delete] (delay 100) j (delay 100) [shift_up]
----> Explorer: deletes file permanently, OK!

Should I use the old or the new plugin?


**************** Other tests, now no more important ***************

send {Shift Down} Sleep 500 {DEL down} Sleep 500 {DEL up} Sleep 500 {Shift Up}
----> OE: shows window for some ms only, no action with the message

SetKeyDelay 500,200
Send {Shift Down} {DEL down}{DEL up} {Shift Up}
and
SetKeyDelay 500,200
Send {Shift Down} {DEL} {Shift Up}
----> OE: shows want to delete window for about 500 ms, button "no" pressed automatically(!), no action

SetKeyDelay 500,200
Send {Shift Down} {DEL}
----> OE: shows want to delete window, stays on screen until pressing yes or no, shift stucks

SetKeyDelay 500,200
Send {Shift Down} {DEL} {rShift Up}
----> OE: shows want to delete window for about 500 ms, button "no" pressed automatically(!), no action, shift stucks. Shift stucks also in BEditor (Editor like notepad)

SetKeyDelay 500,200
Send {Shift Down} {DEL} j {Shift Up}
----> OE: shows want to delete window for about 500 ms, button "no" pressed automatically, although j is sent.
No action, shift does not stuck. ( j = y for yes in German)

SetKeyDelay 500,200
Send {Shift Down} {DEL} j {Shift}
and
SetKeyDelay 500,200
Send {Shift Down} {DEL} j
----> OE: shows want to delete window for about 500 ms, button "no" pressed automatically, although j is sent.
No action, shift stucks.

Hello Jürgen,

Congratulation !

Is (1) a mistype it is a real only [SHIFT]

New Command = keys, keys "[shift]" <----(1)
New Command = utilities, Delay "100"
New Command = keys, keys "[delete]"
New Command = utilities, Delay "100"
New Command = keys, keys "j"
New Command = utilities, Delay "100"
New Command = keys, keys "[shift_up]"

I wonder why my first post

[rshift_down]
delay 200 ms
[DELETE_DOWN]
delay 200 ms
[DELETE_UP]
delay 200ms
[rshift_up]

not working and your 100ms version works.

So for the record the new and the old plugin keys.dll works ?


Thanks for testing

Greetings

Leo

Hallo Leo

Is (1) a mistype it is a real only [SHIFT]
----> works with shift and shift_down

New Command = keys, keys "[shift]" <----(1)
New Command = utilities, Delay "100"
New Command = keys, keys "[delete]"
New Command = utilities, Delay "100"
New Command = keys, keys "j"
New Command = utilities, Delay "100"
New Command = keys, keys "[shift_up]"

I wonder why my first post

[rshift_down]
delay 200 ms
[DELETE_DOWN]
delay 200 ms
[DELETE_UP]
delay 200ms
[rshift_up]

not working and your 100ms version works.

-----> This is not in my list of the working possibilities, neither 100 nor 200

So for the record the new and the old plugin keys.dll works ?
-----> Yes, with the exception that the new plugin has the following bug, may be
Jeff can correct it. Apart from that, I don't know if something else is different
in the new plugin and if more tests are necessary.

[shift_down][delete][shift_up]
----> OE: deletes message permanently, but it should not delete, because the
letter j is missing
----> Explorer: no

Thanks to all for your help and time.

Just to clarify what you've reported.

Using the original keys plugin:

[shift_down][delete][shift_up]
OE: Message moved in folder deleted objects, does not bring up "delete confirm" message

But

[shift][delete]j[shift_up]
OE: "Delete confirm" message appears briefly, presses j to confirm it, and message is deleted without being moved to the deleted objects folder.

Something about that seems odd to me.

-- Jeff

Using the original keys plugin:

[shift_down][delete][shift_up]
OE: Message moved in folder deleted objects, does not bring up "delete confirm" message
----> 10 tests: sometimes does bring up "delete confirm" message, sometimes not and moved in folder deleted objects. May be a timer problem.

But

[shift][delete]j[shift_up]
OE: "Delete confirm" message appears briefly, presses j to confirm it, and message is deleted without being moved to the deleted objects folder.

----> I wrote: [shift][delete]j[shift_up]
OE: deletes message permanently, OK

I have bad news. A friend of mine was testing too the keystrokes in OE which were running correctly on my computer. And he just told me that none of them is working, not with the old and not with the new dll. He has also win xp sp3, but the rest of his configuration I don't know. :-)

Hello Jürgen,

What hardware has your machine and your friends?

Excuse Jeff that I wrote the wrong Shift - Down -command.

Greetings Leo

Hallo Leo,

sorry that I cannot participate more here. Tomorrow I have to go to a hospital for about 2 weeks. When I'll be back at home I'll check if there are any news here.

Thank you and greetings.